Here is one for you all to critique

[Twice Barrel]

** Gun for sale post was deleted by moderator **

[fullchoke16]

Described as "RARE" and "I'm no expert on these guns". = 2 RED FLAGS
Barrels cut to an odd ball size, 1/2 baked muzzle repair = needs work to make it usable.
I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't even think about it.

[Silvers]

Our guidelines are to post Guns for Sale in the Members Forum, not here. The one exception to that has been Bo-Whoop and that's because it's such an historic gun. I know this one wasn't posted here by the person who owns the gun, but it is a gun for sale. This one apparently has issues, the next one posted here may not. I remind anyone posting "guns for critique" that are also guns listed for sale, they should be doing it in the Member's Forum where the AHFCA leadership has authorized such "for sale" postings there and only there. Info for those readers who are registered users only, the Members Forum is available in phantom on this site to paying annual and life members of the AHFCA. Frank Silvers

[Twice Barrel]

Silvers I'm sorry that I offended your sensibilities but thought it would be fun to critique how a seller will misrepresent a gun, in this case a Fox for the sake of suckering in the uninformed. Many of those that are not a sophisticated as you come to this forum to seek advice and I thought this might be of value to them.

[Silvers]

Twice, you didn't offend me at all. Just trying to follow the guidelines established by our Association. Our members see this type of evaluation and critique of Foxes quite often on the Members Forum, and many of us have learned much by critiquing guns that are posted there, as the one was posted here. If we don't follow the guidelines on some things it erodes our ability to ask folks to follow them on others. All are welcome to join up with the AHFCA. Membership info is on a tab on the right side of our Home page. Silvers

[abner]

I feel this is an important item that should be addressed on the full forum and not just for members only. This item is being mispresented and everyone should know. I read the Fox site daily, but I do not always go to the members only portion. If we cannot discuss an important item because it is "for sale" on some site and not by this member, then we limit our ability to exchange information. I feel the Board has a very narrow view on what is "for sale" and what is "for discussion". I don't know if Twice Barrel is a paid member or not, and I don't care, but I thank him for bringing it to our attention. If there is such a rule, then follow it and remove Bo-Whoop.

[fullchoke16]

I took this to mean critique the gun in question not to mean that someone here was trying to sell it here.

[Silvers]

It was not my intent to start a controversy. We routinely remove posts on guns that are for sale in this forum, but you may not have seen that because they were deleted before a particular reader got onto the site. This is nothing new but usually it happens before someone adds a reply, as happened here. If the moderator had deleted the entire thread, fullchoke 16 would be wondering what happened to his reply. Sometimes you just can't win....

Let us say this gun that was posted is being discussed for discussion only - because it perhaps is not as represented. Then the next gun posted here is also for sale but is as represented but someone just wants to know what other folks think. How do we allow one and disallow the other? The rule is clearly stated in the text below the Fox Forum link, "any post that appears to be the sale of a gun will be removed". This is no different than our brethren do in most of the other SxS Collector associations.

Regarding the postings on Bo-Whoop, my personal take is the gun is so historical that user and member postings will add to its mystique and for that reason there is an overriding reason to allow postings on that particular Fox. IMO the one that was removed here is far from that unique and one of a kind category. Foxes with cut-off barrels and apparent rib problems are pretty common on the internet auction sites.

I am hoping this reply will put this issue to bed, but if not I suggest that any interested members write up a proposal for a new policy, judgement call guidelines, etc., and send it to FoxAdmin for consideration by the Board. Frank Silvers

[mike campbell]

How do we allow one and disallow the other? ..... my personal take is .....there is an overriding reason to allow postings on that particular Fox. Frank Silvers

Well, there you have it. Pretty clear to me.

[fullchoke16]

Frank, Point well made and understood. Fred